Making the Conan Swords: An Interview with Jody Samson

Albion Armorers is pleased to present this recent interview with Jody Samson, discussing the production of the original Conan movie swords, and the new editions that will be available through Albion.

This interview was conducted by Jason Dingledine in Mr. Samson's shop in Burbank, Ca.

AA: How did you end up being the maker of these swords? What were the challenges you faced?

JS: I was anxious to get the work and agreed to take the project on before I could take any time to really think about it. After the studio people left, I sat there thinking "I've never done anything like this before!" I have to admit that I panicked a little. I had done a lot of sculpture before and made hundreds of knives and swords, but had never combined the two, or even carved a single guard for casting. The principles seemed to be the same as doing sculpture, so I figured I'd give it a try and see what happened.

AA: John Milius (Director of Conan the Barbarian) has graciously offered to loan Albion his original swords from the film. How many of each sword were made, and approximately how long did take to create each sword?

JS: There were three of each, and I worked on them over six months. That's kind of amazing, usually six weeks is a long time to work on a movie. There were also fiberglass versions made for fight scenes, and I understand that a company in Spain, due to time constraints, was asked to make additional copies in steel for some other scenes during filming.

AA: Popular "myth" has it that these swords were very heavy -- some sources say as much as 12 pounds, and that weight had to be added to them so that Arnold Schwarzenegger could "feel" them. How much did each of the original swords actually weigh? Would you consider them usable swords?

JS: Film swords are in a category to themselves - usually they have to look "larger than life" in order to translate on the silver screen. But these swords were actually much smaller than they might appear on screen. The Father's sword weighed around 6.5 lbs and the Atlantean weighed around 8 lbs, which is nowhere near 12 lbs. (laughs) and no weight was added to them, for any reason. Besides, most of the swords you actually see in the film were fiberglass castings -- like in the fight scenes -- which weigh hardly anything at all. The real swords were only used in "beauty shots" -- the close-ups, etc. As to weight in general -- I make real swords, and most of my pieces are very light. But these were heavier than usual because I was working from Ron's production designs and I wanted to replicate those as closely as possible -- and remember, Ron was designing for the big screen.

AA: Were the blades on the original swords permanently mounted in the hilts, or could they be disassembled?

JS: They could be disassembled. The blade had a short tang, to which I welded a threaded rod. The pommels were drilled and threaded to match and then screwed on.

AA: What kind of steel did you use?

JS: Because these were only intended to be used as props, I used 440C stainless. It takes a nice mirror polish, but it is not a steel I would use on a functional sword. Our new versions will be of 5160, which is what I use most often.

AA: What were the original hilt components made from, and did you finish the hilts completely, or did the studio?

JS: Well, the castings were bronze, and yeah, I did the finishing work. I antiqued them and then buffed the highlights, giving them the "worn" look John Milius was looking for. The grip cores were made from brown, canvas micarta, which I didn't polish, but left rough. The only thing I didn't do was wrap the handles. The wrapping was done by the prop department.

AA: When you started work on the hilt components for the Father's sword, how many versions where prototyped before the studio accepted the final design?

JS: Two versions.

AA: I believe that in another interview it was mentioned that the original carving was a low relief?

JS: Yeah, it was real flat. Like a medallion. They wanted it higher. So I carved the skull hollow, to lessen the weight.

AA: How was that done? Isn't it difficult to cast something that is hollow?

JS: Actually, the waxes were molded in two separate pieces (each side of the guard) and put together. Then the guard was investment cast as a whole in bronze.

AA: Besides these two hallmark swords, did you create any of the other weapons or armor for the film?

JS: No.

AA: Tim Huchtausen carved the hilt components for the Atlantian sword -- was it difficult fitting the blade to a hilt that you did not design yourself?

JS: Not too difficult, I made a pattern for the sword blades first, and Tim worked from the pattern. Tim carved them in clay (Mr. Samson usually works in machinist wax when carving his hilts), and I ground the blades while he (Tim. Huchtausen) was doing the castings. Those castings unfortunately weren't as good as this (Mr. Samson reaches for an Albion Crom casting on a table behind him), especially on the inside. This (Crom casting) requires just a little bit of clean-up, the others took quite a bit of fitting. The arms on the Atlantean alone took me several hours each just to clean them up. One reason that our new versions of the swords will actually be better than the original fillm swords is because the bronze foundry we now work with is much better. There will actually be finer detail - detail that was supposed to be on the originals but was lost in the casting process. On film that doesn't make much difference, but in person you can really see it.

AA: Were any of the swords that were kept by the cast and crew members after the film brought back to you for sharpening?

JS: (Mr. Samson smiles), Yeah, John had me sharpen his original Father's sword - then he sent it back to me a few days later to unsharpen it -- it was too dangerous to leave around his house like that. When I sharpen something, it's very sharp.

AA: In Conan the Destroyer, Conan carried an Atlantean that looked different. The grip and the ricasso extensions looked longer, and the lines of the blade did not seem as well defined. Why is that?

JS: I didn't work on Conan the Destroyer, so I am only guessing here. It looks to me as though the swords used in that film are fiberglass copies that do appear to have some modifications made in them.

AA: For the five Atlantean™ swords that you were allowed to recreate a few years ago, for Arnold Schwarzeneggar, to display at Planet Hollywood -- were there any differences between those and the film originals?

JS: Well, I ground the blades for Tony Swatton. Tony put on handles that were longer than the ones that I made for the movie. John (Milius) loaned him one of the swords to make the molds from for the hilt components. However, since they were molds made from the poor castings on the originals, they were not very detailed. The runes were also only shallow surface etched from a new pattern, and the lines of the design were much thicker. The lines and runes on the original swords were taken directly from Ron Cobb's drawings and are finer and etched as deep as 1/32 of an inch. That's what we are doing on the new ones as well.

AA: Are there any kind of nostalgic feelings or memories that you think will come back, as far as you handling the originals and creating the new limited editions?

JS: No, a sword is a sword. (Mr. Samson laughs) I'll be a little more nervous this time than I was that time. Back in 1979 when I started making these swords the first time, this was just another job in a string of such jobs, and I didn't think it would have the impact that it has had on my work.

AA: With the recent approval for the production of Conan 3, do you look forward to the opportunity to work with Mr. Milius again?

JS: Always! I hope that I do get that opportunity - and that Ron and Tim are involved as well. It has been great to work with them all on recreating the swords from the first film, and it would be even greater to work with them on creating swords for a new film.

AA: In the 20 years since you created the movie originals, has there been any major equipment changes that have caused you to change the way will make the new Limited Editions?

JS: No, I'm using the same equipment. I bought my BurrKing just before I got the job, and it was one of the newer products on the market at the time. Previously I had used stone grinders, but these are better. The BurrKing is getting rather old, but I think it is fitting that the last thing I should do with it is remake these swords with the same machine. By the way, the first knife that I ever made was done by hand with a file. Cooper (John Nelson Cooper) wanted to see how dedicated I was to doing this. (Jody laughs) I guess I was.

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Albion Armorers would like to thank Mr. Samson for being gracious to conduct this interview. For more information on Jody, please see his website .

© 2003 Conan Properties, Inc, all rights reserved
Conan™, Father's Sword™, Atlantean™ Sword, Fangs of the Serpent Dagger™, Conan Dagger™, Subotai's Sword™ and Valeria's Sword™ are registered trademarks of Conan Properties.